Phone Game: Golden Input From A Woman
Posted on February 21, 2008
Filed Under Inner Game, Men Attracting Women, Relationship Management, Seduction, Women Attracting Men |
It’s no secret that we’ve been talking a lot about “phone game” around here recently.
Not only is the latest Power Session devoted to it, the latest X & Y Communications newsletter was also.
In that newsletter, we highlighted an e-mail question sent in by Brendan in California about finding the balance between calling a woman too little and too much.
Now as you know by now, not being “underground” has its advantages. Women not only tend to like what we tell guys about improving their skills with them, they also tend to get on my newsletter list and stay there.
Most claim that they enjoy reading about themselves from a guy’s perspective and/or regard the information as a guide to how to identify great men out there. Interesting, no doubt…either way.
Best of all, I often hear from the women on the list. Ever so often I even have the good fortune to open an e-mail from a woman that really offers some additional “insider information”.
About ten minutes ago, I received just such an email from Karen in Portland. In it she talks about her own “phone game” experiences. This “first-person” perspective is absolutely golden.
But the real gift to each and every guy reading this blog is her tandem of “Top 10 Lists” dealing with female reactions to calls from guys. Priceless.
Will you agree that everything she says is universally transferrable? Maybe, maybe not. But we all would do well to treat her message as a valid case study.
Enjoy…
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Hi Scot,
I had to chuckle at this man’s dilemma. I also agree wholeheartedly with your response to him as well as your “lady guru’s” comments.
[Ed. Note: Essentially, this was that if a woman likes you it doesn’t matter if you call her several times a day. If she doesn’t, she’s creeped out even if you call her once a week.]
She is so right! If we like you, baby you are golden and can call within short intervals as long as you never appear needy or like you don’t have a life. If we aren’t interested, it’s all over and calling too frequently will only make it worse.
If men just pay attention and clue in to the woman’s response to them, they can save themselves the anguish of the guessing game.
I recently had to get down and dirty with a guy who had been chasing me for a year. Despite the fact that every time he called I was dating someone else (and let him know), I never accepted an invitation from him, often didn’t answer his calls, returned them only after 2-3 days, answered e-mails and texts with the same delay and only if there was something specifically needing a response.
Sadly, despite all this, which most non-needy, healthy esteem men would take as a sign of rejection, any bit of interaction I gave he took as a sign of interest, when in fact, those are the signs of a woman who is disinterested.
Now, about 6 weeks ago I met a guy I do like and hey, it’s mutual. For the first two weeks he called me every night except for one or two here and there when he had his kids. He even called me after coming home from other dates. [Ed. Note: I hope you all caught that. He’s completely upfront about dating other women.] He asked me out 4 times in those first two weeks and often for an entire day or evening. His only comment to me once was “you know, you never call me…” I had only to laugh at that as I was thinking “could the fact that you have either called or seen me 10 of the last 14 days have anything to do with it?”. Alas, I simply replied with, “of course I do, I always return your calls”.
It recently dawned on me during this experience with guy #2 that he called me so frequently and within such short intervals yet for once I wasn’t annoyed buy a man calling me so much. Had that been guy number # 1, he would have been just digging his grave a bit deeper with each call.
Fast forward 4 weeks and #2 still calls often daily, sometimes now in the a.m. on our way to work as well as later that day, sometimes sends an email or text in between, and still wants to see me 2-3 times a week, often 2 days in a row if our schedules allow. Of course, I let him get away with this because, despite his interest in me, he has never been needy, or clingy, hasn’t stopped any of his “pre-me” life routines and maintains that edge of cockiness (not arrogance) that is just enough to be charming, dare I say even a bit… hot.
So the only comments the I would add to your response to Brendan is for men to “clue-in” to the woman’s signals.
Top 10 signs we like you and it’s okay to call:
1. We actually answer your phone calls.
2. If we can’t or don’t answer, we call you back within a few minutes to several hours or as soon as we get a moment
3. Rarely, if ever will we wait more than 24 hours to return a call because we don’t want you to take that as a sign of disinterest.(plus, we really want to talk to you)
4. We sound happy to hear from you!
5. Over the phone, we let you talk/engage in conversation with you for any period of time
6. We are content to talk on the phone just to talk
7. We say “yes” when you ask us out, or at least say yes more than no (and no is usually just ‘cuz we have a life too, not because we aren’t interested)
8. We will let you hold our hand, put your arms around us, kiss us good night etc.
9. We reciprocate your attempts at physical contact by sneaking in a little touch on your arm, shoulder etc
10. We smile lots and laugh at most, if not all of your goofy jokes. We might even think you are truly funny.
Top 10 clues we are not interested and don’t want you to call:
1. We rarely, if ever actually answer the phone when you call-so GIANT CLUE- if you get our voice mail the majority of the time, we probably aren’t thrilled you are calling… AGAIN!
2. We wait more than 2 days to return your call, and return it only if necessary.
3. We insist on paying our share of the bill.
4. We rarely, if ever respond to emails, texts, unless a reply is specifically indicated.
5. We don’t engage you in conversation on the phone and usually won’t allow the conversation to continue for more than 10 minutes.
6. If you don’t think we sound happy to hear from you, then we probably
aren’t.7. We never say yes when you ask us out.
8. We won’t let you touch us…at all! no hand-holding, arms around us, you discover you have just “missed” our lips and landed on our cheeks (an ominous sign).
9. We don’t “get” your jokes/sense of humor.
10. We say something polite but direct like “nice to meet you but …”(any comment preceded buy “but” is code for please don’t call again)
I just wanted to add my 2 cents, for the benefit of every man who has ever dated and lived through the humiliation of multiple rejections because he has called too frequently when the woman was clearly giving him signals to back off or just stop calling.
Love your answers to these guys. Strong work!
You be good,
Karen, (in Portland)
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How’s that for an eye opener. Did you find yourself asking, “How on Earth is guy #2 keeping her attention with his call frequency so obviously out of whack?”
Well, as counterintuitive as it sounds vis-a-vis everything you’ve ever heard about phone game, when YOU aren’t “out of whack”, your calling frequency is basically a non-issue.
Now granted, were #2 to suddenly back off the calling a bit, what would Karen do? My guess is that whether she realizes it now or not, she’d likely become even more interested…and more wildly attracted.
And Karen or (whomever else wants to) is certainly free to toss in two cents in response here to that conjecture.
But the point remains: Guy #2 was not “JBFed” because he called too much. And…Guy #1 was “JBFed” for reasons wholly separate from his calling practices.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: When your inner game is together such that you aren’t needy, clingy or otherwise coming off as desperate all the “rules” tend to become secondary, if not “fade into Bolivian” altogether as Mike Tyson would say.
Masculine confidence…and options. Accept no substitute.
Be Good,
Scot
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You are so right about what makes a woman feel liked, Scot. And a man that has things to talk about and wants to share his day with us always makes us feel good.
But you are also right about the fine line between creeping us out. It is pretty easy to tell the difference. Calling multiple times in a short amount of time says needy and creepy. Sounding anxious when they finally reach us says creepy.
Having something to talk about, being interested in our day and talking about when to get together never creeps us out IF we are interested in a guy.
The fellow I’m dating works in Texas all week while I’m in Tulsa. He is up by 5:30 am, usually at work by 6:30. I’m an early riser too, but I joked about having an early meeting and needing a wake up call the first week he began traveling, when we were brand new. He called the next morning around 6 and cheerily laughed about being my wake up service.
That began a tradition of his calling every morning around that time. We began dating the week he began this work schedule and that has been since Jan of 2007. I can’t tell you how much we both enjoy that brief contact, early in the day! I used to joke it was his way of knowing no one else was in bed with me, and vice verse, but it is more than that. It is how we deal with his being out of town all week.
He also calls around the end of the day…5 ish or 6 ish, for us to touch base about how our day was and what we are doing that evening. He is usually asleep before 8:30 so calls when he is in bed for a longer chat about our day, our kids etc. All in all, we rarely talk for more than 10 minutes, total, during the day, but the regular contact keeps us connected and reinforces that we are really interested in each other. I will say that the ratio of calling is probably 80-20…he initiates most of the calls. I rarely call him just to talk, and I’m mindful of the fact that he doesn’t have much privacy during the day and has fast paced days.
There are no specific plans of “a future” together…we just focus on how we treat each other while he is gone and how we spend the time we have together on the weekends. I suspect that early on he began the regular contact because he knew I was active with friends and community events and he was worried I would not continue to date a fellow that was out of town.
I think it was how he dealt with the anxiety he had about whether I was going to continue to date him. There were a few times when he got a little “creepy”, especially when he could not get a hold of me…but I understood how it must feel to be in a hotel all week while your girlfriend was out and about in her town. I told him when I felt he was sounding anxious, so we always talked about our feelings of just not knowing where we stood when relationships were new. And I have to admit some nights I would wonder what he was doing, as several members of his consulting team were dating local gals or going to clubs. As we became a couple, we both relaxed and I think we would both be shocked if the other person was unfaithful or dishonest.
We built trust early on by the regular contact that assured the other we mattered and no one else was in the picture. And by his sharing some of his co-worker’s behaviors he did not respect I grew to know what sort of recreation he enjoyed. And that he was a man of integrity and high standards…worthy of my attention.
Hi Scot,
Yes I agree that my top 10 list is definately “universally transferable” as you say.
We women make all the same mistakes, and many more, all too frequently.
Of note, I just want to point out that my Top 10 lists are not all-inclusive. However, when developing them I picked the behaviors, from both perspectives, which either myself and/or my single girlfriend’s have encountered most frequently and consistently.
And yes Scot, I’ll give you this, if guy #2 starts calling me less frequently, it would likely increase the “want-factor” on my part. However, I absolutely would not start calling him more to make up the difference. I’ll just keep my already very active and full life as well as continue dating others, then just wait to see what happens.
Thanks for the love, ladies. Guys need to hear more first-person insight on what you are looking for…especially when it’s grounded in reality and articulated SO well.
Right on.
You just don’t get this stuff by being “underground”, fellas.