What I’m about to share with you comes after months of consideration, countless conversations with real guys everywhere and yes…a final decision that despite how controversial my thoughts are going to be to some, this post really NEEDS to be written.
Here’s the thing. I get a lot of messages from guys on the subject of porn.
Typically, they’re worried that they have a very real problem in their life because they’re watching it. They wonder if it’s scarring them for life, disjointing their views of women or even “robbing them of masculine power”. They’re concerned that if any woman they ever go out with finds out about it, she’ll drop them like a hot potato.
Now, let’s be honest. There are some guys who have very limited experience with women and porn only exacerbates the mysterious “too good to be true” factor they associate with the idea of having real sex with a real woman.
And granted, if you watch really violent, misogynistic stuff it may start warping your perceptions of the overall, holistic value women could potentially offer you.
And yes…if you’re watching it when you know you really should be doing something else—and your quality of life is suffering for it—then you are indeed being robbed of personal power, masculine or otherwise. That’s what addictions do.
If you’re truly in trouble, let me be the first to encourage you to get the real, valid help you need from the right kind of trained professional.
However, with all of that said, let’s proceed, albeit with caution. After all, not every guy who watches videos of naked chicks doing the “wild thing” on the Internet once in a while is going to come close to suffering any of those unfortunate fates I just described.
In fact, the vast, vast majority of us won’t. And I can objectively prove it.
If you’re familiar with an organization called Alexa, you know that they’ve got a fairly reliable system for ranking the popularity of websites worldwide. As you might imagine, The likes of Google, Facebook, Yahoo!, Amazon, YouTube, etc. are right there at the top.
BUT…make sure you’re sitting down for this: the first porn site on the list has ranked as high as #25 in recent days—and yes, it’s the real deal, not some “softcore” gig.
That’s a staggering truth. Just to put it in perspective for you, as of the moment I’m writing this PayPal is #57, CNN is #59 and AOL is #68.
In fact, ahead of CNN there are no fewer than FIVE full-tilt, purpose-driven, all-out porn sites.
Consider that right there above CNN at #85 is Netflix. That means there are FIVE porn sites with more people watching them than who are accessing Netflix. That’s just crazy.
Now, in order to get the scale of this in proper perspective you need to fully understand that in the WORLDWIDE Alexa rankings all the separate versions of Google for each individual country count separately. Plus there are a bunch of sites in China, Japan, Korea, Russia and perhaps other places that none of us in the English-speaking world have ever even heard of that factor in also. Lots of those are in the top 75 or so as well.
Then you have to consider that in the grand scheme of things there are thousands of porn sites out there (if not more) generating huge amounts of traffic each. Meanwhile, as far as social media platforms, search engines and the like there are only a few go-to sites for each. In other words, even those mammoth porn sites in Alexa’s top 100 only represent a tiny fraction of overall porn traffic on the Web.
Add it all up and you have no choice but to come to one stunning conclusion: There are a LOT of people watching a LOT of porn out there.
And in order to rack up numbers like that, you’ve got to at least consider the possibility that it takes more than one gender (i.e. one half of the general population) to get the job done. More WOMEN than you think have to be watching this stuff, along with the expected massive percentage of men out there.
Honestly? Regardless of what most guys think about what might happen to them if ANY woman they ever date finds out they’ve ever been to a porn site, I’ve personally been out with DOZENS of women who freely admit they watch it. Yes, they were high quality women who exhibited the “big four“. One even went to far as to tell me how much “girl on girl porn turns her on”.
But check this. In light of the MASSIVE number of people out there watching porn, there are relatively FEW men out there raping women or slapping them around violently. And even insofar as those guys who DO such monstrous deeds are concerned, it’s usually a stretch to claim that porn was the primary provocateur for their actions.
So ultimately, here’s what I have to say on this matter: If you think you’ve got a problem with porn, I want to challenge you to consider if you REALLY have a problem with GUILT or SHAME about porn instead.
That’s really heavy. But there…I said it.
So what’s really the deal? Is it that you genuinely dislike that you watch porn, or do you simply worry that you’re a “bad guy” for watching it and somehow deserving of social scorn?
You know, whenever I go to Europe I can turn on the TV anytime after about 9 pm and easily find two people banging each other in living color, right there on my hotel TV. That’s without paying any extra for “special” programming, mind you. It’s not only there because Europe is more of a “guilt free zone” for such things, it’s there because it GETS RATINGS.
Meanwhile, in the US, the UK, India, the Middle East and indeed much of the rest of the world the “culture of shame” is in full effect. You can even get beaten or killed some places for so much as entering the country with “erotic literature or other media”. It says so on the very immigration card you fill out when you fly there.
Recently I asked everyone on Facebook if they’d be comfortable following porn stars on Twitter, let alone tweeting to them. People avoided my post in droves. No kidding…hardly anyone even wanted to be associated with that conversation, let alone actually indulge in the activity I was asking about.
Indeed, if you dare, go ahead and start Googling the names of hugely popular porn princesses and click on their Twitter accounts. You’ll find that most of them have like 1500 followers, and the same six or eight guys writing to them all of the time.
You’ll likely frame the guys who are tweeting to them as “desperate losers”, simply in judgment of their admission to watching porn. That’s actually par for the course. We’ve been programmed by society to have the same knee-jerk reaction to them that we fear people will have toward us were they to find out that we secretly watch porn also.
But meanwhile, in the real world as many guys know the names of some of these porn stars as know who, say, Jennifer Lawrence is.
Hence, more proof of the near universal stigmatization of porn in this culture, despite the blatant hypocrisy. It’s no wonder we’re just loading ourselves down with guilt and shame like it’s nobody’s business.
If you linked here from my newsletter announcing this post, you no doubt noticed that I had to use an asterisk symbol in lieu of an “o” in the word “porn” to even get the message through AWeber’s servers and delivered to your mailbox. That’s because we couldn’t let that e-mail “offend” anyone.
But don’t kid yourself. The SAME people who act “offended” and feign shock at porn—and who point fingers of shame at those who watch it—are quite likely CONSUMERS of it themselves.
You don’t really even need to talk about the religious leaders who get caught with porn on their hard drives (including Taliban guys, for the record). The people in the pews defrock them, then go home to “rub one out” in front of their computers. And everyone involved wallows in guilt and self-hatred for it.
Regardless of the front people might put up, the raw statistics have spoken: People LOVE, LOVE, LOVE to watch other people have sex.
People are horny by design, and since it’s brain-dead easy for them to access porn, they’re going to watch it. The broadband Internet makes it far easier than at any point in human history for us all to do so…in streaming HD, on demand, and for free.
So look, everyone. If you find yourself drawn to watching naked people bonk online, you’re NORMAL. You’re NOT a freak, a loser or worse—unlovable by the deity you worship and/or your true “soulmate”.
In fact, the next time you’re glued to your computer let what you see help clarify exactly what physical type of woman you like best so you can better identify her in the real world before any clothes ever come off. You might as well get at least some benefit from your “downtime” insofar as you can. Otherwise it’s a total waste of time, save for the physical release that you’d hope the whole event culminates in.
And I know some of you ladies are reading this. If you sneak away and watch it also, that doesn’t mean you’re an inherently bad person either. There’s a valid reason why so many of you know what’s currently in vogue when it comes to shaving your nether regions and/or how to talk and act in the bedroom in a way that turns us men on. You may enjoy the added bonus of realizing, contrary to what the profit-driven media would have you believe, that men actually like women of all sizes, shapes, body-types and ethnicities. Porn-star popularity stats don’t lie. After all, they are indeed compiled under the cover of Internet anonymity.
What’s more, there’s not something “wrong” with the guy you’re seeing if he indulges in it sometimes. He’s not any different than most other guys. He’s perfectly normal. Chances are he’s watching normal people have normal sex, not anything violent or freakish. And no, he’s not going to love you less as a result.
Now, if you disagree with me on any (or even all) of what I’ve written here remember I’m simply the messenger. I’m calling it like I see it.
I’m not saying that porn is a good thing. I’m not saying that the nature of the porn industry itself isn’t deeply problematic in multiple ways. And I’m certainly not advocating that people abandon the morals associated with their faith in order to watch it. I applaud those who resist that temptation more than you can imagine.
All I’m saying is that if you DON’T resist that temptation, you’ve got plenty of company. At the very least, you might as well not drown in guilt and shame thinking you’re somehow “weird”.
But better still, wouldn’t it be MUCH better if you knew when real, live women were interested in having a sexual relationship with you? For foolproof ways to know for sure, read this. It’s free.
Be Good,
Scot McKay
P.S. What do you think? Am I right on or am I giving dudes too much of a “free pass” here? Give me your thoughts below…if you dare.
Don’t know how I missed the question on Facebook, but heck yeah. I’ve followed Belladonna since she had just a few followers. She’s interesting. I unfollowed a couple others because they weren’t.
Then again, I work in an adult toy/video store, so I’m a bit less shy about that stuff. And yes, we sell almost as many dvds to women as we do men.
Brian, thanks for the objective viewpoint from a guy who sees the consumer habits first-hand. Fascinating…
Hey Scot,
I think you’re spot on. If anything gets in the way of being productive, it’s a problem.
We definitely have a guilt mentality…especially in the US. The reality is, we were MADE to be horny, and any denial around that is simply repression.
Life is so much happier without guilt!
Rock on, my brother!
Yes, indeed…that was the stated point of this post. It’s all about guys being overcome with guilt thinking they’re “weirdos” simply for being horny. And you’re right, they’re not.
Good post Scot, thanks for addressing this issue. I do find it sad though that many of the men’s coaches who advocate watching porn as normal (which of course it is especially in a sex negative society), mention is not made of the UN statistics on the abuse of women in porn; in the name of sex actual physical cruelty is ignored in many cases. The research is clear that much porn is made in conditions of coercion of women including sexual slavery, and some female porn stars have openly stated they were sexually abused as children. It’s convenient to ignore this. I have been recently encouraged to notice on sex educational sites, especially a couple I belong to that are aimed at men, that some men have said they are ditching their porn collection for materials that actually teach them about sexuality from the feminine viewpoint, including the connection of human heart to genitals, always missing in porn. There isn’t even eye contact in porn unless it’s a woman sucking off a man giving him googly eyes.
Make no mistake: people get rich off male sexual vulnerability and abuse of women in porn. It’s sex to the lowest common denominator. Yes it’s getting an audience: as we are so sex starved as a culture and sex is the basic life force. However your guys are right; there is a huge ‘ick’ factor about porn for many women. Nothing turns a lot of us off faster than porn with its very deliberate separation of sex from emotion, heart and humanity; and that’s just the ‘normal’ stuff.
Hello Rosie, and thanks for bringing up some legit talking points.
Here’s the way I look at it. If you want to shine the light on exploitation and take a stand against it, that’s good and noble. But you’ll have to stop eating shrimp, wearing certain brands of athletic shoes and talking on certain cell phones also.
And heck, if making money off of someone else’s blood, sweat and tears is a crime, then I’d like to try the upper management of the fmr. Lucent Technologies in a court of law myself.
Exploitation and $$$ are in every business. I would argue that the porn sub-segment is microcosmic of the ENTIRE entertainment industry, frankly.
The other thing I’d add to your excellent comments is that I’d really caution against generalizing porn as a genre in any way. You can pretty much find what you want, including tender, loving passionate lovemaking with eye contact.
And definitely make no mistake about it, there are PLENTY of porn actresses who clearly LOVE their job. There’s even “amateur” porn where people send in their own clips without any compensation whatsoever.
All of that said, I applaud the guys who trade porn for instruction in what women really want in the bedroom…especially if 1) it’s what THEIR woman wants in the bedroom, and 2) there’s reciprocal instruction for the women on what their GUYS want.
Scott, where is your moral logic.? A long list of wrongs in the world does not justify or reduce the wrongness of the type of porn production Rosie is referring to.
Alycia, that’s a decision you can make for yourself. But if this is about taking a stand against exploitation and profiteering, then you’ve got a LONG list ahead of you of what has to be written out of your life along with porn.
And again, the topic of how atrocious some porn production can be is a “red herring” here. That’s not up for grabs in this post, and I’m in perfect agreement with you. This post is about guilt men feel about porn.
Outside of the women hating sexual abuse abundant in porn, a major downside is the view of women to be of sexual service to men. I am a 67 year old female. In my 20’s during the sexual revolution, young men were lovers. I was pleasured abundantly. I never had to ask for my needs to be met. In reading today’s blogs on many websites a young women’s experience is quite different and so is mine. Service is expected with no regard for a woman’s needs. In the 60’s we did not have web porn. In my opinion porn has ruined sex – vibrators are sold in the millions now – that’s the best sex for a woman today, a vibrator and a fantasy lover.
I would totally agree with that…. I do think porn plays a huge roll in that….
I’m curious if you’re linking vibrator sales to porn? That’s a fascinating point.
All told, I agree with your sentiments, although I’d also consider the role that “get what you want” dating/sex advice has played along with the self-absorption culture of the 80s/90s and even the twisted views on “relationship” fomented by social media.
Yes, I do link the rise in vibrator use to the sexual beliefs presented in porn. I know of many women who tote their vibrators with them when going to be with their guy. As you say men “lead” women. Many women feel inadequate because they are led to believe they are supposed to come in 90 seconds with no foreplay like the porn stars do. It is easier to use a vibrator for a quick orgasm than deal with the hurt of being too much work. Also, faking is rampant nowadays.
So, basically you’re implying here that you concede the notion that most women watch porn?
In all seriousness, Marie, there are at LEAST as many men who are even more self-conscious about what they’ve seen in porn. They’re usually too busy worrying about they’re own performance to demand that a woman finish in a hurry.
No, I do not think that most women watch porn. Most women I know check it out, but find it boring and depending on the web site, quite disgusting. I said “led to” i.e. ascribing to your position that men take the lead and women naturally follow it. A man who absorbs false information on female sexuality from porn and values that type of sexuality can influence or lead (as you term it) a woman to disparage her own sexuality and find herself inadequate. Pretty soon she starts getting an awful lot of headaches when her partner is interested in sex.
I think you’re throwing this whole thing into an “if/then” loop that isn’t necessarily based on logical fact. At the very least, it’s not the train of thought and action that most will follow.
And “check out”=”watch”, does it not? And hey, most MEN find some of it boring and a lot of it disgusting too.
In the end I mostly agree with you Scott, though my intellectual approach is somewhat different.
One of the great concerns I have with porn, aside from moral implications, are the social dynamics represented in the scenes. In most of the porn scenes (especially the popular ones), I notice the female to be the aggressor far more often than the male – usually in initiating sex, progressing in sex, and often even the actual act itself, they’re the ones leading in the interaction.
This to me represents a stark contrast from reality, and possibly a dangerous one at that when it comes to gentlemen with little to no experience with the opposite sex. The fantasy consistently seems to be of a guy with no background qualifications (aka, not having been shown to be a big-4 man) suddenly being pounced on and/or solicited for sex by random women – often women he’s never seen before in his life, and usually after some sputtered, clearly awkward prologue. The subtle lesson behind this is reinforced every time: as long as you’re okay with women wanting to randomly have sex with you, it’s normal for women to approach you and suddenly want to rip your pants off.
An easy answer to this is the fact that people know the difference between fantasy and reality. Certainly this is true; people don’t get up from watching a horror movie and then start planning on becoming a serial killer with “I’ve Got You Under My Skin” as their theme song. At the same time, I’ve got to respond to your latter suggestions: If people are going to watch porn to find an ideal body type, then chances are they’re also going go absorb with those body types the personalities and behaviors associated with them – and in the case of most porn, those personalities and behaviors are *not* the norm, and don’t really represent the masculine feminine dynamic, and in that sense, I think the most that can be said about porn is that it is *not harmful* to some people. Maybe that *some* is in the majority, I dunno. But I can speak for myself and say that I find most porn unwatchable – not because the women are unattractive (some of them are gorgeous), but because the way the porn actors interact is so antithetical to my own experience with motos, both in casual and sexual encounters. Ultimately, each individual person will have to ask themselves how they feel about porn, and if there really is any positive addition to their life that they get from porn, aside from a bit of physical pleasure.
There is one issue with porn that I see not often introduced (and you mentioned it briefly): the potential addictive qualities of porn. Neuroscientists have been researching the effects of porn on the human brain, especially as related to the more general effects of internet addiction. Even Psychology Today released an article last year.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/cupids-poisoned-arrow/201203/santorum-porn-and-addiction-neuroscience
Another neuroscientist started up a blog/webpage to help people deal with the -often very damaging- effects of porn addiction.
http://yourbrainonporn.com/
This isn’t to say that all porn is bad for all guys, and that all men will be affected. However, it should be stated that any man should endeavor to make sure that his habits are not harming him. And if porn has the same addictive qualities that heavy internet usage does, then he should be extra careful to ensure that he isn’t damaging his social and sexual life by what he clicks on at night.
Scott, I respect you immensely. Even though I take a more negative view of porn than perhaps you, I value your articles and thank you for all the work you’ve done on helping us men become more than our former selves.
~Jonathan
Thank you too, Jonathan for such great comments.
I agree that we all need to understand the difference between fantasy and reality, but again…this is a point that could be squarely applied to not only all of Hollywood but the gaming industry and even commercials for beer and body wash.
I’m not sure I’m tracking with you on commuting porno ho traits to body types based on porn consumption…UNLESS we’re talking about an obsession with a certain actress relative to a certain woman in real life who reminds him of her.
And I don’t know, but at the risk of people calling B.S. on me I’ve encountered women who behaved EXACTLY like porn stars behind closed doors (and yes, they were perfectly high quality women). It can happen…especially if you know how to lead that way (e.g. see David Shade’s work).
As far as the addiction side of it, addiction to ANYTHING is counterproductive and unhealthy. But the same argument could be applied to tobacco, alcohol, gambling, etc…
How can one be a man of character and lead a woman into porn activities – activities which ignore her needs while satisfying his.
That’s an invalid assumption, Marie. In actuality, quite a bit of porn focuses on meeting women’s sexual needs. Interestingly, that may be because most men really get turned on by satisfying women, so what I’m saying is perfectly logical.
Besides, your point would also appear to erroneously assume that only men watch porn.
Thanks Scott for the detailed answer. And I completely agree, there are many women who do act like porn stars behind closed doors. One of my favorite things to do when hanging out with girls is to tease them into revealing their wild side, and it’s really amazing and fun to get to see them drop the pretense and be totally real. My comment in specific is that though there are a few women who act like porn stars behind closed doors, that is just one flavor of woman, one that tends to be very over-presented in the porn industry – and this has the strong potential to shift people into thinking that the personal sexualities of the “average” (yeesh, hate that word) porn star is the expected norm, rather than one of a hundred different flavors of sexual intimacy.
I can’t blame the porn industry; some sexual flavors are just plain difficult, if not impossible to capture on camera – especially when the talent is… talented in things other than acting. 😛 In this case, I would argue that such images and personalities are not the same realm as beer commercials, etc. Beer commercials are reinforced by seeing a couple hot chicks. Porn is reinforced by a the highest surge of dopamine and oxytocin that the body can produce.
This leads into why I brought up the strong problem of addiction. I understand that my linking articles does not mean that you’ll have/take the time to read them, and I accept that. The overall point of the articles is that porn addiction is a larger part of internet addiction, albeit a much more potent form because of the massive releases of dopamine and oxytocin associated with the orgasms that (usually) occur at some point while viewing porn. As with what happens with pair bonding, the massive release of these chemicals can result in the rewiring of the brain, leading to severe problems. If I could sum up my thoughts, it would be that the problem of addiction is worth more than a casual mention, and that self-guilt may have as much to do with the symptoms of addiction (including self-blaming and depression) than simple inner moral conflict. And if this is true, getting over the guilt may be a bit more complex than simply reevaluating his/my/your/etc’s feelings about the act of watching porn.
Hopefully this clarifies for you what I said in the first comment, and again thank you for taking the time to listen to my words, I appreciate it.
I think your points are well-taken. As I’m not the proper professional to properly deal with addiction on an individual basis, I suppose that onr could see this post as somewhat akin to me ringing the doorbell and running away from the real issue. But trust that my intention was rather to open the floodgates to begin a conversation that’s been simmering under the surface for a LONG time.
I do indeed wish the best for guys with true addictions and want to see them get the help they should.
Your take on “flavors” of female sexuality is also genuinely interesting. I would offer that there really are different types of women in porn, even from that standpoint, but YES, absolutely…some who would be interesting to certain men in real life are under-represented in the world of erotica for perhaps the very reasons you cited.
Hey man I know you’re being honest. I have no intention of accusing you of being dishonest or running away from an issue. Trust that I am merely providing other perspectives. And yes, masturbation does need to addressed – I agree completely. Society’s morality has been changing and moving for the past hundred years, it would be ridiculous to pretend that we can just keep taking for granted certain moral codes and avoid examining their true effects upon society – them and the behaviors that they forbid.
Personally, I find myself annoyed at the majority of porn that I come across. Having spent a good deal of time working on building up deep wells of emotional depth between myself and some of my closest friends, I am genuinely bothered by the lack of emotional depth in the vast majority of porn that I’ve come across. Sexual intimacy? Sure. Emotional? No – and again, I do not blame the porn industry for that. After all, to be fully emotionally vulnerable with a hundred different people that you may only ever meet once and never see again is a recipe for disaster. So we have an industry will naturally attract certain types of women to work, certain personality types, and in a medium where by default certain types of intimacy and communication are limited or impossible. In such a scenario, I find myself very reluctant to look to an industry like that to decide what kind of woman I’d like to date/marry/have sex with.
This is every more so the truth when taking into consideration the fact that sex only makes up a small portion of the time spend with motos. We don’t look to movies to decide what flavors of friendships we’d like to have with the people in our lives, but all of a sudden porn is how we decide our sexual preferences? Maybe for some people, I guess, but it just doesn’t ring true to my ears.
All being told, I don’t take issue with people masturbating if they want to. What they do is their business, and I think that if other people find no moral compulsion to avoid masturbation, then they shouldn’t feel guilty about indulging. But I also think it’s important to recognize the inherent dangers also present: pornography is possibly the most potent form of internet addiction; a disease/infliction that has real consequences. And the videos/pictures present are based on pure fantasy; the pictures are all photoshopped to remove any trace of imperfection, and the sex scenes are often elaborately choreographed, to the point where it can take an hour and a half to shoot a thirty minute sex scene, where twenty of those minutes are the two actors, inside each other, sitting still while the director gives them instructions on what they’re going to do next. I think it would be detrimental at the very least to look to porn as a reference of what one’s next lover should look/act/be like. But again, I acknowledge that these are just my opinions.
Again, thank you for taking the time to listen, and comment on your own blog. That’s a rarity from my experience, and it speaks highly of you. Let me know if you check out those two links I posted, I think you’ll find them incredibly helpful. Peace.
I tend to agree with Jonathan. Also, to be a bit trite: if one or more other addictive pass-times take us over the bridge, does that make it okay for us to add and say it’s okay to do porn?
I understand that some people can view porn, separate it from their feelings and get something from it. I admit I find it hard to believe based on my experience.
I personally cannot view porn, just as I can’t view violent films. It leaves negative lasting images that I cannot erase from my mind. Even soft porn is not a turn-on for me and I don’t like “erotic” novels written to take us down that path either. These do nothing for me. But give me a red-blooded real man in my bedroom–and the LOOK OUT!! You don’t need porn to learn how to have a satisfying and happy sex life. You just need to be comfortable with your body, your partner’s body and keep the communication at a high level, whether the sex is hot and heavy or light and flirty.
I have tried to understand the porn thing but I just don’t get it. I had an ex-husband who was addicted. It was one of a number of issues that were the tip of the iceberg of an abusive marriage that I eventually escaped with my life.
I had a boyfriend after that who was and is still so addicted that it gets in the way of his employment, getting enough sleep and being able to have any kind of relationship with a woman outside the bedroom.
I have a friend whose son was turned on to porn at a young age by an exchange student in their home. The son, a bright young man is now twenty-five, flunked out of college, has no job, no healthy relationships with girls at all, cannot get a job and sleeps all day because he’s on the computer with porn all night. The situation took the whole family into counseling and their is nothing else they can do because he is so addicted and they cannot remove all the ability to access it from his life. Porn was a bomb in the middle of that family.
Porn can be such dangerous stuff to people’s self-worth and/or their expectations of others.
This has been my personal experience.
Well, yes…that all would clearly classify as addiction.
I don’t do sex with porn guys. There is no pleasure for me with that kind of guy – in the back of my head I am thinking “He wants to abuse me – he’s wanting to squirt in my face and have his friends gang bang me.” So when I am deciding on a guy I cozy up to him, make him comfortable and secure with me and then ask him which porn sites he likes. If he has an answer I drop him cold.
Yes Alycia, it’s only fair to say to the guys here, it’s a deal breaker for many of us quality women.
C’mon, Alycia. That’s game playing in it’s most baseline form. Essentially it’s entrapment. IMAO you’re doing those guys a favor by excusing them.
You’re entitled to prefer whatever kind of man you want, but recognize 2 things:
1) If you dismiss EVERY guy who’s ever watched porn, you’ve got a VERY small dating pool left to wade in and…
2) You’ve got to deserve what you want. Deception and “games” will only get you that in return.
Scott, I must object to your sense of proportionality. Certainly my sexual dignity and my responsibility to care for myself take priority over whether or not a game is used to get some sense of a man’s sexual attitude towards me. There is a real BIG FOUR man out there for me and I am willing to wait for the quality man I deserve.
Alycia, I really hope you haven’t been drinking the “purple Kool-Aid” about how women are “divine goddesses on pedestals” and “all men are jerks”.
The truth is that this stuff isn’t gender specific. Whether one is a man or a woman, he or she should deserve what he or she wants by representing the values he or she wishes to have in a mate.
I’m curious, what exactly does a man watching porn tell you about his attitude towards you? I mean of you like the person enough to ‘cosy up’ to them…what exactly is the problem?
Hi Marcus, The porn I have been exposed to depicts women as objects of service and/or victims of sexual violence. So it seems to me that a man who enjoys this type of sexuality would have an attitude towards me that is disdainful, dehumanizing and hateful and that I could not expect to derive much if any sexual pleasure with him. I make an inquiry into a man’s porno use because I like him, desire him and hope to have sex with him – sex that will be connected, affectionate, with lots of play, fun and exploration – not what I have seen on porno.
Alycia, I think we’ve pretty much established that that’s just one particularly dark niche. Most men aren’t getting excited to watch other dudes physically harm women. Were you to look at the sites getting the lion’s share of the traffic (which I certainly don’t expect you to do), you’d find there is a wide variety of other ways people can be shown having sex other than men physically abusing women. In fact, I really think there would be very real legal issues with filming actual, physical assault.
Dear Alycia,
Thanks To porn I learned how to make a girl have a squirting orgasm. First thing I tried to do is give one to my wife, Who left me after I told her where I learned that. Every time I attempted to do it to her she said that’s fake and ur gross. She ran around told all her friends I’m a pervert she won’t be married to a pervert.
About 6 months ago, a year after she left, I got a new lover. She runs around telling her friends on the best lover she’s ever met. She asked me where I learned to do that night or from a porn video. Now she wants to watch porn with me the frankly were too busy having multiple
Do I want to share her with my friends and jizz in her face No Do I join making her wet sheets yes Never again will I like to a woman about watching porn. And if you dumped me for itorgasms to put in a porn video….. all while the ex wife still can’t come. Do I want to just the girls face share with my friends know
Hi Zack, I am glad men make productive use of porn, which by the way you describe it, would not be the porn I have been exposed to. In reading this blog and other blogs it is heartening to find the interest men have in pleasuring their woman.
Scot,
Your basic premises is, most everyone does it and that makes it just fine if you do. Now admittedly, I have watched my fair share of porn. However, I will say this about porn, it is a fantasy world. The women are all eager and happy to have anything and everything done to them. No talking, no skill, no interaction… everything someone needs to make it in the real world….. Just is not there….
Porn is a form of escape from the real world.… No thinking… just a total rush… then… back to reality…. I watch it when I am board out of my mind… it is really mindless… I mean how long can you watch a guy go in and out of a woman from every conceivable angle….
It is watching someone else do what you would like to do…. I would think as a coach you would be advocating men to be having a relationship…. Porn is not a relationship… It is a pure 100% make believe world…. It does not help anyone in any way shape or form… and it certainly does not create a lasting relationship….
I think you dropped the coaching ball in this post…..
Stick to things that really help in the real world… not escape from it….
Craig
Craig, I urge you to read the post again.
Remember, I’m *not* advocating porn usage here in a way that says we need more of it instead of less of it.
I’m also certainly not saying anything even close to “porn is better than real women”, etc.
This post is really about helping guys come to grips with their GUILT over porn. The inspiration behind this post is literally dozens of e-mails and coaching calls from guys who are hamstrung in their dating lives because of their GUILT over porn, not really by the porn itself.
I suppose some could claim those ideas to be one and the same, but my opinion is that they aren’t.
OF COURSE, I believe that the primary goal for a man who wants to be truly happy with a great woman is to be a “Big Four” man, a wise selector and an effective relationship manager. That’s exactly why I’ve spent the majority of the last eight years writing on those topics instead of this one.
But based on all the comments already, you can see this is something people have thoughts on that they want to get off their chest…so let’s hear it for having an objective venue for that, finally.
And here’s a thoughtful response to this issue. http://TheKirk.sermon.tv/mc/6916787
I’m not sure exactly what qualifies a woman or man as high quality in your view, and I have to say I’m finding it a little bit of a stretch to envision these high quality women watching porn. I find guys that are into watching porn a turn-off. I’d lump them in with guys that spend a lot of free time playing video games or sit on the couch watching football for hours. Except porn is nastier. I’m not a prude at all. The bottom (sorry) line for me is there’s about a zillion more productive, more wholesome, more proactive, and yes, more fun things that a person could do with their time.
Well, I agree with you. To sit around jerking off to porn is largely a waste of time, especially excessively. But again, this is about dealing with SHAME and GUILT over it.
As for the link you sent and the premise of being “high quality”, remember that people have different moral codes out there. “High quality” is defined by the “Big Four” for both men and women. If the elements of one’s character are compatible with those of his or her potential mate, then that compatibility cannot be argued.
Think of it this way. Without that allowance, it would theoretically be assumed that only those of a certain worldview could possibly have a happy, fulfilling relationship. We know that’s not true, right?
Hey again Scot,
great discussion you have set off!
Here’s another thought to consider:
do you think it’s possible that the guilt that plagues some of your male readers about porn is coming from a healthy place within them? The body knows what’s good for it and what isn’t….guilt is not the same as shame. Guilt tells us when we have crossed a line that offends ourselves, even if no one else knows about it.
Just a thought.
There’s plenty of highly sexual women who are offended by porn. I agree with you regarding entrapment above; and yet, the ‘ick’ factor does it in for me. There’s plenty of sex positive stuff around, e.g. Mr Shade as you mentioned, it’s a question of quality and humanity. BTW do you know that the meaning of the word ‘pornography’ is ‘the depiction of women as whores’. Pornos in Greek means whore. It is an ugly word meant to debase female sexuality, as the word has always been used. Get real about this.
Well as far as porn and the assumed masturbation that goes along with it having a deleterious effect on physical health, I’m pretty sure we refuted that sometime back in the 1880s or so.
But your point about “guilt” as opposed to “shame” may be valid. Let me be the first to admit that I used the word “guilt” interchangeably with “shame” in this context when “shame” may certainly have been the better and more descriptive word.
As for guilt driven by morality, I’m not going to deny the value of that if what your talking about is somewhat akin to what’s commonly described as “conviction”.
STILL…my post is meant to talk even those guys off the “ledge of shame” a bit, simply because porn use among the devout appears to be absolutely pervasive and possibly even MORE damaging to the psyche…precisely because of that extra measure of shame that would be poured upon them should others find out about their “dark secret”.
Oh, and by all means…I think prostitutes are gross too. So let’s go with “erotica” rather than “pornography”. I have to say I like the etymology of that one better. Fair enough?
Scot I’m not sure if you are deliberately misunderstanding me, but let’s let that rest.I am talking about a much deeper level of self betrayal by men than masturbation causing blindness, or morality…..I am talking about the soul of men reacting to the abuse of women in porn at a possibly unconscious level. I love men, I think it’s quite possible that this is the source of the guilt some may feel about porn. Men are manipulated by the porn industry as much as women but very few see it.
Do not assume that I think prostitutes are gross. I did not say that and in fact do not believe it. It’s not my place to judge a prostitute, especially the well documented extent of that industry that also involves sexual slavery. This attitude is exactly what I am objecting to in porn. Female sexuality judged by men, women without agency. + also the lack of human connection as part of sex.
There is a huge difference between erotica and pornography. I do draw a distinction between porn and erotica and one of the distinguishing differences for me is whether female sexuality is depicted as a commodity for men to use and abuse or as a dimension of another human being; and whether there is any recognition of other, or even, amazingly, affection between the participants.
You are becoming an apologist for porn Scot. A surprise to many of us.
Well, thanks for clarifying that.
Yes, I’m the one who said prostitutes are gross. If you want to further qualify that to mean, “I think prostitutes would be gross for me to have sex with personally”, then so be it. I might as well speak as clearly as I can also.
As far as distinctions between “porn” and “erotica”, I disagree that the line isn’t so easily demarcated as you say. Regardless of semantics, there are pictures and videos out there that depict shocking, disgusting and even evil things, and others that are geared toward more “mainstream” sexual practice that appears to respect everyone involved, etc., etc.
As for me being an “apologist” for porn, please read the whole post. I clearly state than I’m most certainly not. The WHOLE POINT is that a lot of men (and women too, I bet) experience shame and guilt over watching it, and yes…A LOT of people watch it. And it’s NOT going to go away anytime soon. So rather than stick my head in the sand about the whole thing, I’m addressing it head-on. But in order to do that in a meaningful, credible way, it’s GOT to be objective. I’m calling as I see it, not as either you, I or any other commenter here wishes it would be.
Typically, whenever you DO see this issue brought up (if ever) the author is clearly biased in one direction or the other. But in my mind, it’s useless to pretend EITHER that “all porn depicts violence toward women” or that “porn is a harmless fantasy”. Both are one-sided views loaded by personal opinion and conviction or lack thereof.
Scott, if you had used the correct word “shame” rather than the misnomer “guilt” you would have produced a sexually productive blog. To me, shame is a faulty attitude to yourself, a belief one is inherently worthless because of a behavior or characteristic one has – in this case a proclivity for porn. Guilt is one’s inner conscience guiding you. It is built into our conscience to respect one another – oftentimes porno violates that. By the way Rosie did not say that prostitutes are gross. You said prostitutes are gross – don’t ascribe that to Rosie. Have a little of compassion for a woman who has travelled a road in life that has led her to such debasement. How different is a porno performer from a prostitute? Are not both selling their sexuality. Both should draw on our compassion – not be called “gross”.
So Alycia, you’re saying that men who WATCH porn are reprehensible to you and that you basically have a “one strike and you’re out” policy toward them, but that porn chicks/prostitutes/etc. should be given a free pass? That smacks of a double-standard, and you know it. You’re essentially saying that while men should be responsible for their actions, women are victims.
And yes, I said prostitutes are gross. But don’t worry, I think men who do gross things are gross too. It’s the action, not the person.
Thanks for pointing out the double-standard, Scot. Men need some grace, too. And yes, gross is gross.
Rosie did not say prostitutes are gross. This is your opinion. Porno performers are not that much different from prostitutes. Both sell their sexuality for money. “Gross” – have a little compassion for a woman whose life (in many cases being sexually abused by her own father) has led her to such self-debasement.
Scot,
The only point I want to make is Porn does not enhance a mans ability with the skills he needs on how to treat a woman… porn really has no skill at all… At least Girl on Girl has a little foreplay… sometimes… I know you are an intelligent guy and I think even you would be hard pressed to see much creative work in porn….:-) It is just a way to easy escape… At least when a woman reads a novel it has a plot and a dialogue to follow..
Craig
Again, anyone really can find whatever kind of porn he or she wants out there. You just can’t generalize the entire genre like that.
You’re logic is albeit logically faulted but emotively correct ( is there a truth that isn’t ? )
My question is this..Is it right for men in general to not do the best they can do like women some women then deny the repercussions of it ? If so is the question you asked rhetorically a faulty question ?
You’re going to have to rephrase that one, Nick. You lost me there.
Your blog is weak sauce . The issue is too man guys spend too much time on porn instead of out in the field . You didn’t address that because YOU are , in fact, weaksauce.
You should’ve simply said – limit your porn as much as possible cause it detracts from your desire to go out in the field. Period.
Grant, your ad hominem name calling is a logical fallacy in and of itself and does little to establish your point as credible.
But the greater logical fallacy here is your “straw man” argument that because I talked about freedom from shame over porn in this article that I never talk about the other topics you’re bringing up.
This is one blog post dedicated to a set topic. I’ve spent YEARS talking else where about meeting women, attracting them and what goes along with it.
Still, I’m not really a “pickup artist” so you can’t assume my priorities are the same as yours anyway. I would purport that meeting a high quality woman and building a healthy relationship with her is what matters most.
As for your main argument itself, I flat-out don’t agree with the assumption you’re making. I think that’s far from automatic. I can just as easily imagine some guy viewing porn and then getting even MORE energized to go meet women (which is no less twisted a mindset, for what it’s worth).
Man up Scott – no guilt about watching porno? Does this define a Big Four Man of Character? A Big Four Man of Character creates a fantastic, mutually over the top sex life with his partner. He doesn’t waste time watching male-centric fantasies. A real man gets his pleasure in pleasuring his woman (and vice-versa). High quality people go for high quality sex.
If you’ve read anything else I’ve written, you know that I agree with you about the character piece.
But the bottom line, Alycia is that you can’t assume that level of evolution from every man just yet. Most just aren’t there, and this post is meant to keep real-life dudes from actually REGRESSING in their level of real-world success with women because of shame that they would perceive as perhaps unique to them and which they may see as somehow disqualify them from EVER deserving a great woman.
You have to bear in mind that you are the woman these guys fear: absolutely intolerant without flexibility toward any man who has ever watched porn and enjoyed it.
Yes, I am inflexible in my opinion of men who enjoy watching women being sexually abused, a major segment of porno.
A “major segment”, but not all. So why disqualify any man who has ever watched any porn? You talk of compassion…how about getting a bit of elaboration from them?
You know, Scot, I’m glad you’ve brought this up because just about every other “dating coach” or “guru” or whatever they like to call themselves seems to avoid it. One even advocated guys not watch porn because it might somehow turn off their attraction for real women.
Very fair standpoint and I agree with you completely. Once again, love your posts!
Thanks, Elvis.
We welcome ALL viewpoints…even those of people who agree with us. [laughs]
And yeah, man. I’ve never really understood the whole logic behind porn messing up attraction for real women. If you can’t really get any attractive women that could be true *I guess*, but I don’t kowtow to that sort of assumption around here, as you know.
All I’ve got to say is thank you Scot for addressing this topic.
It means a lot to me to hear you say that the majority of people who watch pornography are not “weird” but may be in fact, normal.
I know that I feel guilty a lot whenever I watch pornography.
Knowing your opinion on this topic may not wash away all the guilt, but at least the acknowledgment of the prevalence of watching pornography is a relief.
You’re welcome, David. This post was for you.
Definitely curtail the porn at your own pace if you don’t like yourself for watching it, but you’re not some sort of weirdo or “bad person” as you sort that out.
Does no one else watch porn with there girl?
Maybe it’s cause I mainly date girls under 30 but I’ve found the vast majority of women I’ve dated and every girl I’ve had a relationship with not only enjoy porn but quite enjoy doing many of the things seen in porn.
Crack a bottle of wine, spend some time in the jacuzzi, and let her pick out some video’s to reenact. If she’s comfortable with you the scenes she picks will be way more ris-kay than what you would pick…trust me.
You’re definitely NOT the only one, Ryan. I can say that definitively.
And I’m sure you’re hanging out with some sweet women who have hearts of gold, too. They just agree with you on this particular issue…which is fine.
You know Ryan, the porn industry doesn’t own sex. Many women are happy to do things seen in porn just because they are sexual beings. They don’t need to have seen it in porn to think of doing it.
That’s very true also. If Ryan and his g/f are compatible, so be it, but other couples can most certainly have a great sex life without it. That much has never been up for debate.
Excellent post.
I think guilt over porn is thinly disguised guilt over a person’s own sexuality and desires. I’m not saying that there aren’t reasons to dislike porn, or valid areas of disagreement about it. What I don’t believe, is that there is any more reason for someone to feel guilty about their taste for porn and shy away from an actual conversation about it than there is for someone to feel guilty about their preference for AL baseball and the DH.
Sex can be a lot like baseball (then again, most things that matter are a lot like baseball). Baseball can be played for fun and enjoyment among friends and casual acquaintances. A father playing catch with his son can be a terrific bonding experience. Watching the most talented pros go at it can be wonderfully entertaining. Sex is much the same, it can be great fun, it can be an expression of love, and it can be entertaining to watch. It can be all of those at the same time.
The idea that women don’t like to watch is a falsehood. Many women like porn, many women like to watch porn with their guy, and even among those who don’t get into watching people go at each other on a computer monitor, there are many who enjoy visualizing outrageous sex in the theaters of their own minds. I’m speaking of the fantasies fueled by everything from steamy romance novels to female oriented erotic fiction.
Interesting analogy, and for the most part I agree with you. Just think about baseball, man!
I find it surprising the amount of flack you’ve caught over this post. Many people need to actually read and understand the point Scott is making. Especially whoever mentioned the trick about asking guys what their favourite site is as a means to drop them. Just wow. I would really be interested to see the response if Emily had released this post, written towards women.
Thanks Ayko, but dissenting opinions are to be expected whenever a topic like this is brought up.
For the record, it’s not like I wrote this post behind Emily’s back. She’s in lockstep with what I’m saying here (and yes…like you said some among us actually need to READ what the post actually says.)
I really enjoyed your post. I grew up in a very conservative Christian religious home that left me with major guilt/shame issues regarding my use of porn. My first partner was very intolerant of porn and I hid my use of it from her. This led to guilt and trust issues. The relationship did not last.
Recently, I have adopted a more open approach with the women I date. I freely admit to women that I like porn. Several women had a hang up with that but appreciated the honesty. That openness and honesty has all but erratic acted past guilt or shame issues.
I cannot tell you how much more enjoyable my relationships have been with women that tolerated or even enjoyed my use of porn. I am not sure what a “big four” man or woman is but honesty about my porn use has led to some fantastic relationships and a much higher quality of life. My current girlfriend watches porn and we have had great conversations about sexual expectations and desires. Life without shame is the only way to live.
You know, Rob, you bring up an interesting point. I too am finding that couples who are MORE honest with each other about MORE things in general have happier, more trusting relationships than couples who don’t. Some of the happier couples I know actually have open relationships, which is as you might imagine a cognitive challenge for the monogamous among us to accept. It just goes against conventional wisdom for those of us who’ve been guided along the “one man/one woman” path.
But the evidence is there…when it’s ALL out on the table as far as sex goes and there’s no “sneaking around” about ANYTHING–even porn, etc.–then it certainly doesn’t seem to hurt the relationship, at the very least.
Scott, go back, redo your blog. Use the correct word “shame” – not “guilt” – in doing that, with a few minor adjustments, you will have made a notable contribution to healthy sexuality.
You have quite a few female readers – we are curious as to what you guys are up to. You are doing a great service to speak to men about character and what it is to be a high quality man.
Thanks for the kind words and encouragement. You know, after ruminating a bit on the whole thing and studying the formal definitions of the respective words I believe both shame AND guilt are relevant to this discussion.
After reading the whole article and blog info about shame, guilt and porno…I just cannot help leaving a message to all the ladies that I felt were somewhat throwing dirt on Scot, same with the quirky dudes that wanted to look smart:
I have a relationship with my girlfriend for the past 3 years and yes…I admit watching porno before and still do…once in a while…and so what? Hey, I must be doing something right, because my girl knows about this too and doesn’t make me feel less of a man. So, I am about to be graphic here, are we ready? yes…
I am certain that as long one doesn’t disrespect or hurt his/her partner, why not spice things up? Like Scot says, there are quality and Good lovely women out there who see it too. I say there is good porn and there is the bad porn. I don’t agree with men or women on that regard spitting or peeing on each others faces, same with slapping breasts or penises, I find that weird , hurtful and repugnant. Yeah…and its a big turnoff when a woman is constantly faking it.
But hey, foreplay, fetishes, body positions, excitement, toys and the lusty sparks of doing it in front of a mirror or even making a little home video for just the two of you. I think all this is fun and keeps things exciting and never boring. One cannot judge a man just because he watches porno, you cant just say “that is the final strike”. No wonder men feel shame, guilt, etc about that, because there is this prudish judgment by especially Anglo society in North America that “ewww…that is gross, shame on you…you less of a man for watching porn and boinking yourself”. That is BS in my opinion. The ladies should think why the other ladies decide to do porno in the first place too. Maybe they do like their job and maybe they don’t and feel exploited. Unless you have been in the industry, then if a person has had an awful experience, then its valid to say it is exploiting. I have heard both sides of the coin.
The ladies here and the quirky smarty dudes should read the Leading Man. It talks about mutual respect amongst ourselves, our partners and other individuals.
If you want to get rid of porno then we should also get rid of GMO foods, the pet industry Facebook and iPhones because apparently workers in China and India suicide because of this stuff so called economy and human progress. Think before you judge.
Thanks Scot for helping me and other guys around the globe. I will stay tuned for more. Take care.
Got carried away a bit…it happens, I’m an Aries
Sorry about that my cell phone does not like this website. Long story short be honest men there are women out there who do it the way you like to do it. There are women out there who love to let go. There are women out there that will teach you to be a better lover And it all starts with honesty
Scott and guys, how would you feel if millions of women across the globe masturbated to watching a young man having his penile shaft cauterized, etc. etc. They liked this porno so much that they watched it every day. And then some of the women felt guilty about this and a respected woman named Scottina said “Don’t feel guilty. It’s normal. All women like getting off on that stuff.” And then she said “It’s OK that this guy was sold into the sex trade industry as a child – it’s OK to watch that kind of porno. It’s only as bad as wearing certain kinds of athletic shoes or using certain cell phones.”
Cauterized penises? Scotina?
You’re just trolling now. I’m not at all advocating abuse, and women don’t get “cauterized” in any erotica I’ve ever seen. I’m not going to repeat myself about what this post is actually about anymore.
I think everyone who regards an issue like this does it through their own prism of experience. There was a time 10 years ago I would have vehemently denied everything you wrote here as being far to permissive with not enough responsibility. Now I realize that porn and masturbation always will be a poor substitute for the real deal. Almost no one wakes up thinking “Great! Today I get to masturbate alone again. I would gladly forgo all human interaction in order to satisfy myself again and again.” Of course there are exceptions to this but overall in healthy adults, masturbation and hence porn serve a biological purpose to keep the motors running until the real opportunity comes along.
Of course there are some who would say it leads to more sexual desires and deeper fantasies but thats been covered in other comments here. Most people who are healthy know the difference between fantasy and reality. Most men/women who claim this seem to have deep seated insecurities as well, and hate to be compared to others who might be better than them in any way.
From my own experiences, porn and masturbation is a risk free way to release sexual tensions. I cant tell you how many times I have heard women say “its better than being with someone I barely know or ruining a relationship with a friend” So it fills those times in life where full on sex is not an option. Be it from the onset of puberty until sexual first contact or at times thereafter. In my opinion, it will almost never be first choice because its really practice for the real deal. Wet dreams or sexual dreams, which we have no physical control over, serve the same purpose of keeping the biological pumps primed. Its much like a muscle and if you don’t use it, you loose it.
We as a society love to moralize things and perhaps in the not to distant past morality was the guide that was essential to keep us on the safe path, not to far outside the circle of firelight where the wild things could pounce on us. Imagine just 75 years ago when a UTI or STD could kill you or lead to a life of misery and castigation from your peers. Then think back to the various moral/religious strictures that say no oral sex, no premarital sex etc etc etc. It really is a new day and age in medicine yet religion and the printed social mores have not caught up with these changes.
Meanwhile in private these changes are old news and people tread on these subjects with great fear, guilt and trepidation. Waiting for nature or “God” to spank them for acting naughty. I understand the feeling having lived through that myself for many years. I’m here to tell you times have changed. Be careful and wise about what you do because you will reap what you sow but guilt over this is largely a wasted emotion. Thinking about this emotionally/morally charged subject a little more logically has done wonders for me.
Thanks Scott for having the courage to address something like this. There’s a ton of guys/girls out there who just want to know.
“Am I normal?” and the answer is a resounding YES.
It’s telling that many women believe that in order to get the truth from a guy about his tastes in porn that they will be best served by “cozying up to him and getting him comfortable.” Which as I understand the point, is that porn carries so much baggage in the minds of a sizable number of guys that it’s assumed we wont give an honest answer to a straight forward question about it.
I think part of Scot’s point is that people are better served by not making such a big deal out of porn. If a woman asks ‘what are your porn tastes?’ answer it just as we would any other question about our sexual tastes and proclivities. Why make such a big deal of it? Why hide it? If a woman has a fundamental problem with our answer, or prefers to deal in the generalities of “All porn is ABC and if you like it you’re DEF” rather than the specifics of the individual’s nature and the whole of who he is as a man, than both parties are better served by an honest conversation about what porn means to them than by dishonesty. Even, no, especially if either person has feelings toward porn that are so strong that they can shape a possible relationship.
It seems to come down to whether we prefer to be honest with who we are, and recognize that among other things such honesty serves to filter out people who aren’t a good fit, or to believe that a true good fit is so hard to find that it’s more practical to be dishonest and try to appeal to someone who isn’t what we most want, but only what seems easiest to get.
Ladies, take heart – there are millions of men out there who are not into porno. There is a man out there for you who feels sadness when he sees a woman degraded and abused, not an erection. A real man can be intimate and connected. He can make love with you, not some facsimile thereof. You can look into each others eyes, play and laugh and love the pleasure you give to one another. I am not Scott’s “goddess drinking purple kool-aid” – I do not put down men in this way. I do not find men to be generically decrepit. I do not find my dating pool to be narrow as he suggests. I believe I am right – there are good and decent men out there, lots of them.
…And if you want to find one, you’ll need to stop “cozying up to them” and tricking them.
I actually agree with most of the rest of your point, except your apparent and frankly bizarre hang-up that all porn depicts women being physically assaulted, and your persistent, unforgiving judgment upon any man who watches porn at all.
Scott, most of the porn I have seen involved physical assault of some kind. The images still pop up in my mind and disturb my sleep. It is sort of like post traumatic stress syndrome. And I never went into any of the rooms. I only saw the images advertising the porn room. I do not want to subject myself to horrible images again with hopes of locating the good porn, but I will take the word of contributors on this blog that it does exist and that I would do better to inquire on the specifics of the porn a man finds interesting. My inquiries into a man’s porn use are devious as some men like to keep this secret. However, I do my best to find out a man’s attitude towards women. I inquire on porno use because I like the man, I desire him and I am hoping to have a sexual relationship with him. However, I have had the misfortune to experience that sex can carry a lot of emotional pain for me if done with a man who views me as an object of service. I care for a man a lot to be having sex with him and with me the emotional and physical aspects of sex are tightly bound. So I take care of myself the best I know how.
Alycia, I have no idea what sicko sat you down and subjected you to that sort of thing to the point of borderline PTSD, but if that’s the case then you really need to talk to someone trained in that sort of thing. I can assure you that the vast majority of both men and women who are turned on by erotica are not there to see people enslaved or physically hurt.
Now, you DO have the “BDSM” crowd who gets off on that sort of thing, but then you’re talking about an entire subculture that’s built around mutual consent. To each his/her own in that respect. I think you can agree that it wouldn’t be reasonable to hold a nihilistic view toward the nature of human sexuality in general simply because those folks exist.
Hey lady, I do agree one has to make a connection with their girlfriend and look into the eyes and see the fire within. But if that is only it, it becomes a bit monotonous. I just happen to get some kinky ideas from books and porno. What about the dirty thoughts of doing it with your partner, this is very important too, keeps things interesting.
I think that the women’s body and genitals are very beautiful, that goes with the human body as well. I also like to draw pinup girls, I am that kind of artist. If I would be less of a man or a pig or whatever for saying that I like naked woman doing kinky stuff, being my free sexual preference…then I feel sorry for any guy being with someone who accuses him of doing so and making him feel shame and guilt rather than sharing the fun and exciting ideas of what might potentially become a fantasy come true. This includes honesty from both parties for the good a healthy sex relationship.
You went kind of far with the cauterized penises…I don’t know what kind of porn is this or which one you have watched, but I have never seen such a thing. Sounds like something from the Hostel movie. Everyone should have preferences without feeling shame as long as it doesn’t involve animals, children, snuffness and cauterized penises. Now that I find wrong.
As a man, one must be like St Francis in order not to watch. I have never met a guy who does not or has not watched porn.
Ladies, don’t bat a guy off for his natural urges. Embrace it and make both of your fantasies come true. As long as you don’t hurt anyone, specially with the cauterized penis thing, jaja
Sorry Alycia, it was funny what you said
Scott
I’ve just read the entire blog!!! Man you did stir things up!!!! LOVE IT!!!!
My opinion for what it’s worth…
I’ve been lucky in life to have met only fabulous delicious sexy emotionally strong men (my big 4!! – haha)
They’ve all been pretty relaxed about porn. In my opinion that’s the way it should be.
I actually quite like it myself, although I prefer a really sexy movie or a dirty book – something with a great story behind it – and a sexy dominant leading man.
Sexual confidence in a man is the biggest turn on for me, and guys, if you’re enjoying ‘a moment’ in the privacy of your own home, then I think that’s magnificent…. don’t think too much about violence against woman or hurting or any of that crap – that’s negative!!! Just enjoy the beautiful moment for what it is, and then, have a shower, put sexy clothes on and go find that ‘sweetheart’ who is just as desperate for the real thing as you are.
If you have your ‘sweetheart’ already, I say share the porn, it’s sexy as…. but only if your sexually confident with it (refer Rene’s first blog – very cool)
Just for the record – can we assume that no-one in this blog actually wants to hurt woman or degrade them. The porn we like is where the pornstar get’s paid megabucks and just loves to fuck – sorry ladies – but some woman love having sex – and they get paid for it. What is the problem here?? OK, she may have been abused as a child – she also may not have been!!!
If we want to talk about child abuse/animal abuse/sadistic sex then lets ask Scot to raise it as a topic!!! (that’s a joke – he aint interested in this shit at all people!!!)
For the record Scot… I just loved the recent email you sent me. The one where the guy wrote to you saying ‘what’s the point of improving myself when woman are all conniving money hungry bitches’. I just loved the way you handled that. You are clearly a huge LOVER of woman, men and humanity and I applaud you xxx
PS: Scot – I’m sure you have no interest in the crusade to protect woman in the sex industry – but some woman in this blog should get on and do that – they clearly feel very strongly!!!
There is good and bad in everything, including porn. As long as one realizes there are negative aspects to it and decides not to support it, then all kinky taboo ideas in private are awesome. Foreplay…the best. Obviously there are moods and times where ones partner doesn’t feel like it, one has to respect that too.
Thanks girl for reading it and making my point be true. I get carried away sometimes, but what can I say…I just had to say what I had to say.
Hey Alycia
We all want to know..
Did ya shag him first????? I mean, did you just kick him out of your bed and send him straight home???
C’mon be honest (wink)
Hi Christine,
No, I did not shag him. I try to find out ahead of bedtime what a man’s sexual attitudes may be. I have found that if a man views me as an object to service him or views my sexuality as secondary to his of no importance at all, then the sex will not be so good – actually could be pretty awful. When I like and desire a man I want to have great sex with him. I do not want to run through man after man until I find one that will enjoy OUR having pleasure, so I do a bit of research first, like inquiring into his porno use. The porno I have come across depicts women as service objects to be used and abused. Maybe the porno DVD’s in the sex stores are more about mutual pleasure. I might add that it is risky for me to ask about a man’s porno use. Some men interpret this to mean I am not a quality woman, that I am not a keeper.
I was talking of my own experience because I live with my girlfriend together for 3 years and sooner or later she discovers me a pervert (in the good way believe it or not)and also she asks me questions. She was even asking me questions related to porn previous to the fact I watched it once in a while. Once you are with a man for a certain amount of time I think you could start asking him this questions and if he is honest, he will tell you his opinion. If you love him, I guess you would respect his or make him see your point of view without reason to argue. If you ask him about porn in the first date or when you barely know him, if he is the right “Big4” then he will probably change the subject. Don’t worry about men not thinking of you as quality woman, as long as you posses that femininity that all sane guys like and keep things interesting for them (for your particular guy). The right time, place and mood will set it up for you when it comes out in a natural fashion. I guess the guys who only use women as objects and exploits them are the sort Scott refers as dishonest, manipulative and those you have to avoid. This makes sense too.
I agree that a first date seems an unusual time to ask about someone’s porn habits. It strikes me as unusual enough that if I ever was asked I would have to consider following up my answer with ‘Why do you ask?’
I’d like to hear Scot’s take on a reply, because I don’t know if changing the subject is the Big Four course to take. At its heart, the question ‘do you watch porn?’ is really ‘is porn one of the things you like to masturbate to?’ which in and of itself can be plenty edgy for a first date, but hey, if she’s brought it up, and if the conversation in general has been playful to that point, an honest answer for many of us could be ‘yes, and I also enjoy ___. What do you like getting yourself off to?’ That can make for some fun conversation for both people.
If she’s not interested in going in that conversational direction, and it would be a reach on a first date, but if she is comfortable in our presence and we’re not leering as we ask, she can probably redirect the convo to what she is most concerned about addressing, perhaps apprehension about some aspects of porn and her desire to know what kind of guy she’s dealing with. That’s a fair topic. As Scot said, the problem for guys isn’t always that we watch porn, but that we feel some sense of shame that we do.
If the woman wants to use porn as a way to probe our makeup, character, and attitudes toward sex, well rather that being evasive and thinking ‘OMG, she’s gonna peg me as a creep’, why not just own it in a way that is open, strong, and honest.
If the overall vibe a man gives off is that of emotional health, integrity, and character and we can plant our sexual proclivities within that such that we regard them as a feature and not a glitch, let’s trust her to make the right decision for herself. If she believes that ‘a man who watches porn is a creep’ and yet she’s seeing us as a decent guy by all her other metrics and she’s seeing us willing to own and explain some of the workings of that big sex organ that is our brain, I’ll trust her to take it from there and make the decision that’s right for her.
Porn is a touchy subject for men to admit. But men DO look at/watch porn.
President Jimmy Carter famously admitted to having looked at pictures of naken women.
The quote with some context :
“The next day, as the interview was concluding, Carter was asked, one last time, if his strong religious beliefs would cause him to be “a rigid unbending president.” His reply, in the form of a long, uninterrupted monologue that I assumed reflected Powell’s prepping, stressed that he did not feel superior to others but rather shared their temptations:
“I’ve looked on a lot of women with lust. I’ve committed adultery in my heart many times. This is something that God recognizes that I will do–and I have done it–and God forgives me for it. ”
For some the ladies reading this…
Most porn is CRAP. Cheap budget, single camera, lousy storyline (if at all), poor edititing (showing the same scene over and over to stretch out the scene), ugly actors. Idiotic dialogue, stupid music, boring to watch, and Never reshooting scenes with mistakes… etc. And this is the popular mainstream stuff.
Nowadays any idiot can get a camera and shoot porn in is garage to try to make a fortune; Cheaply made “reality” porn that is little bettler than poorly made home movies. There is A LOT of THIS out there. More CRAP.
And then there are guys that try to enter the already saturated market with something new, and push the boundaries of good taste. Those guys WILL make porn with “EDGE” (more violent, more degrading, more anal sex, more BadBoy tattoos and piercings attitude.) MORE CRAP CRAP.
There is SOO much crappy porn out there it is hard to avoid seeing the REALLY BAD CRAP.
Also good for women to remember if they happen to watch porn movies : Some things are done “for the camera”, not because it is something that most guys want to do, like : Ejaculating on her Breasts or Stomach, because if the actor just came inside her it would look like he probably faked his orgasm.
Is there good porn ?
There is a gorgeous, Russian woman named Katherine A. (aka Abby, Ebbie, Anjelica) making beautiful sex/love (porn) with a lucky guy that she is obviously in love with. …On Met-Art? FemJoy? … and THIS is porn that is both TASTEFUL and EROTIC.. http://www.nude-gals.com/model_page.php?model_id=176
If Hollywood made porn movies like this, almost all other porn would disappear.
Thanks for the blog post Scot.
I totally agree with you Sterling. There is lots of garbage and violence towards women which is quite the turn off. Ill check out the link. Its like music and anything else, they don’t make as much quality as was used to. I also feel lots of the stuff out there is a reflection of the society, of how disposal everything has become. That is why everything is done so cheap … yes, in the hopes of big bucks. It is sad people do things just for the sake of money, especially a theme such as this.
I agree wholeheartedly with Scott’s initial assessment that the women who trick men into admitting they watch porn in order to dump them are in fact helping those men dodge a bullet.
Coming at this page late and reading through all of the comments in one go, those women give me the impression of them being low-value manipulators, seeking to entrap men who they feel will be entirely dependant on them for their sexual outlet, so that they can use it as a weapon to subjugate their will.
Since these men may tend to be quite religious, as well as avoiding porn they may be averse to divorce and so once tricked into marriage with promises of deeply fulfilling sexual commitment, actually finding that sex is quickly withdrawn and they become captive forever in a celibate state of misery and submission.
I can see no other reason why it should be so imperative to find a man who has never used any porn, and to dismiss any who has without regard for his qualities, than to ensure his total reliance for manipulative purposes.
Interesting theory. Though I’ll argue that if a woman is hoping to ensnare a man in a sexless marriage she might have more success with a guy who is down with porn and can use it as an outlet to offset the deprivation.
More to the point, if someone is sizing their prey up for the kill, I don’t know that porn tastes or lack thereof are all that good a gauge of passivity and dolcility. I seldom watch porn, so my answer to the question of ‘what porn sites do you like?’ might be close to what some of those women want to hear, just as it might please them that I don’t have bookmarks for a single porn site on any of my devices. Yet I’m very much not the guy that such women are looking for. I suspect if she’s insightful at all she’ll recognize it long before the subject of porn even comes up. Same as I’d recognize the whole pattern of uptight manipulation.
Among other things, I don’t know how a relationship can function if communication is so poor that a topic as unimportant as porn can’t be addressed honestly, then what happens when the conversation turns to important stuff. Cue the incredulous Allan Iverson voice “porn? you’re talking about porn? not important stuff, but porn?’
My suggestion to women who want to know the place porn holds in a guy’s life is to just ask him. If you’ve found him to be honest when talking about bigger things you can anticipate him being straight forward about porn. If you haven’t found him to be honest in other areas, such that you think he’ll lie about porn as well, then why are you even wasting your time with him?